OUR ANALYSIS
Below is a roundtable
discussion we filmed, sharing our analysis on the
case while Cosmo was visiting from New York. It
was meant to be the first part in a series of
discussions we had over the course of the week,
but unfortunately, we had some technical issues
that rendered the sound unintelligible.
We’re working on organizing a time with
Cosmo to cover these issues over Skype and will
update this page as soon as we have something to
post.
But until then, the first
part of our discussion is mostly free of
technical issues and available to watch. There
are some parts where the sound issues make what
we’re saying hard to make out, so we’ve
provided a transcript underneath the embedded
video for clarity. Enjoy.
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TRANSCRIPT – JOSEPH
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ROUNDTABLE
DISCUSSION TRANSCRIPT:
THE INDEPENDENT
COMMISION TO ANALYSE AND DETERMINE THE EVENTS
SURROUNDING THE 1965 BRIGHTVIEW UFO SIGHTING.
RECORDING
DATE: APRIL 19TH,
2010
ROUNDTABLE
MODERATOR:
JOSEPH CALDWELL, Founder
& Director of the Australian Federation for
the Search of Instances of Alien Life (or
AFSIAL), Professor of Science, Fernvale
University
ROUNDTABLE
PARTICIPANTS:
BRYAN QUAID, Researcher
and Tour Guide for the Australian National
Archives
COSMO REICHI, Esteemed
Ufologist and Organizer of the long running
‘UFO United’ convention
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
JOSEPH: I suppose we should start by introducing
our panel for today. Beginning with Bryan Quaid,
to my left, researcher and tour guide for the
Australian National Archives. And to my right,
respected ufologist Cosmo Reichi. Thanks for
joining me gentlemen.
COSMO: My pleasure. It’s nice to see you
both in person.
JOSEPH: Yes, we should clarify, normally Cosmo
corresponds with us from New York via the
internet, but on this occasion, he’s in
Australia on business and it’s given us a
chance to finally meet in person.
COSMO: It’s been a pleasure. I’ve
always wanted to come down under.
BRYAN: It’s been great having you.
JOSEPH: Oh, and I should say – I am the
moderator, and I suppose, additional panellist,
for this discussion, Joseph Caldwell, Director of
the AFSIAL and Professor of Science at Ferndale
University.
Now, onto the matter at hand. Should we assume
our audience has some level of familiarity with
the events of Brightview ’65 or should we
give a bit of an explanation? What do you think?
COSMO: I think people should probably read up
first, if they don’t want to get lost.
BRYAN: Maybe a quick summary, just to set the
context.
COSMO: Alright, but we’re going to be
talking pretty in-depth about the case so if
anyone’s confused, it’s all on the
website. We’ve put together witness accounts
and profiles and-
JOSEPH: If you get lost at any point those
resources are there.
COSMO: Right. You’ve been warned.
JOSHEPH: So, Bryan, could you give the less
knowledgeable, people who are just jumping in for
the first time, a little rundown of the case?
BRYAN: Of course. Well, in 1965 – May 5th,
1965, Brightview Secondary College was visited by
three silver disks. There’s a bit of
controversy around their exact colour and how
many there were, and we’ll get into that,
but the important thing to keep in mind is that
it’s not some mad claim from someone who
doesn’t know what they’re talking
about. Dozens and dozens of schoolkids all saw
the same thing, broadly, even if the accounts
don’t always quite line up.
COSMO: I’d say easily over a hundred kids,
for sure. The facts don’t lie.
BRYAN: Well, the number of pupils is around a
hundred, but yes, most of the school was out on
the oval at the time seeing the same thing. I
just want to make sure we’re honouring all
the accounts we’ve gathered so far.
JOSEPH: Well maybe then that’s a good point
to get into to start. At time of recording
we’ve collected, I’d say about –
sixteen accounts?
COSMO: Seventeen.
JOSEPH: Seventeen accounts-
COSMO: Of course that doesn’t mean there
were just seventeen witnesses. A lot have either
passed away or they’re staying quiet.
Suspiciously so, if you ask me.
JOSEPH: And I’m sure we’ll get to that,
later on, but I just want to lay the groundwork
for the moment before getting to the more
elaborate theorising. So we’re pulling from
both the twenty accounts and the circumstantial
evidence we’ve been able to gather, if few.
I suppose I should ask, who interests you the
most? Starting with Bryan, what is the one that
jumped out at you the most?
BRYAN: I don’t know if there’s a
specific one that leaped out at me. There are a
lot that are very striking and I don’t want
that to get lost. I suppose one that has always
stuck out to me is the account of Elizabeth
Williams-
COSMO: Autumn’s friend.
BRYAN: Yes, Autumn’s friend. She was the one
who noticed her absence when they returned from
the bush, and I’m sure that’ll be
another thing we get into, Autumn, but as far as
capturing what happened to them, the kids,
it’s particularly evocative. It really
– children weren’t listened to and,
that’s how it was. Normally I can keep a
level head but – Elizabeth’s story is
one that has kept me up late at night.
JOSEPH: And you, Cosmo?
COSMO: There’s a few. Andrew Jones stands
out to me.
JOSEPH: Now he saw it land? Or one of them.
COSMO: He followed one to the – and this is
what astounds me, or it’s – it was
amazing him first emailing me his account,
because I was always wondering, of the three,
this is the one I couldn’t place. I believe
a few others had said it went off in the other
direction, but I didn’t think anyone had
eyes on it.
JOSEPH: It’s a shame more didn’t follow
him, or we’d have more than – we would
have another account of that nature.
COSMO: Well, that’s assuming that anyone was
meant to follow him. I feel like he was singled
out. Picked out. But I’m not sure why. They
put those words in his head: “not now, not
now”. That’s probably the one I think
about most. But then, there’s Gregory
Lee’s account – or Paul’s account,
Paul Norman. Who both talk about the
groundskeeper.
BRYAN: They place him in different places,
don’t they? Gregory at the school, Paul in
the bush. That has always struck me as a little
odd, but I suppose it’s another one of the
inconsistencies.
COSMO: Well this is what I wanted to get into,
the inconsistencies – I want to look at the
ways, how we can find the consistencies between
stories. Because that story, about the
groundskeeper – or both of those accounts,
he’s acting strange, isn’t he?
BRYAN: Well, I want to turn over every stone but
I also want to give credence to, you know, there
was a lot happening that day and memory –
I’ve spoken in person and over email and the
phone with a lot of witnesses now and I have no
doubts that they saw what they did. I think
they’ve spent a good deal of their lives,
ever since that day, having their stories doubted
or ridiculed and that comes up a lot in how they
remember it. But I do want to remember that
– and I know a few witnesses have
acknowledged this to me as well – that as
long as there are conflicts in their stories, we
have to assume that there are memory lapses.
What’s been – and this hasn’t
shown as much in our online work, but I’m
sure we’ll put something together for it
– what’s been incredible is seeing
witnesses reunite, and memories being jogged. And
the inconsistencies start to fall away. It’s
good to have an uncontaminated account, before
mixing with other witnesses, just in case, but I
know some people were only willing to give
accounts after their first reunion.
JOSEPH: There are also witnesses who insist that
their memory of that day is as fresh as it ever
was.
BRYAN: Yes, and I’m not saying they’re
wrong. Not at all. People are going to remember
some things better than others. Of course, the
impressive thing is that everyone remembers
something.
COSMO: They know what they saw.
BRYAN: Absolutely.
JOSEPH: Perhaps we should get into that. What
they saw. We’ve talked a little about
consistencies, inconsistencies. Is it fair to say
the actual, the crafts are pretty universal, as
far as the sightings go?
BRYAN: Mostly. As I said earlier, there’s
details about colour and movement that don’t
line up and – I just want to be clear, the,
what I’ve noticed is that the accounts of
those who have attended reunions or that
I’ve interviewed together, they’re the
most consistent. They’ll note consistent
movement, the zig-zagging, they’ll say they
were silver. I know a few said white and gold,
some noted a glow – and that could all
simply be where they were standing and how they
reflected, how the sun hit them. I think
what’s really validating about this case, at
least in my role as, in investigating it, is that
things match up a lot more than they don’t,
and the more fresh those memories are, the more
they match up.
COSMO: What I want to consider as well, is noise.
Some of them talk about this big whirring
mechanical noise, which is certainly my
experience, but others are saying completely
silent and – I think what comes to mind is
dog whistles.
JOSEPH: Dog whistles?
COSMO: That only – a frequency only some of
the kids could hear. I think that’s the most
likely, you know. I think there’s, it’s
like with Andrew Joseph, he-
JOSEPH: Andrew Jones?
COSMO: Andrew Jones, thank you, Andrew Jones, he
was lured away, so I think, I think there’s
a certain frequency that, they must be able to
single out some people as opposed to others and,
maybe it had to do with, like Bryan said, where
they were in conjunction to the ships. Because
what if – the school has those giant pylons,
the electricity towers, right next to it. Maybe
it’s – because it makes sense to me
that the closer to were to them, the crafts, but
also if you were in that space, between the
electrical current and the crafts, then maybe you
heard it a little better.
JOSEPH: So this is assuming – I should say,
my position has always been that the location is
very important. I don’t think it’s
chance that they were so close to those pylons,
that, if I had to make a guess I’d say it
was some sort of charging station.
COSMO: Right, so if you were in the path of the
charging process, or, whatever interference that
– because that’s what could have
trapped them there, all that jagged movement back
and forth, maybe they were trying to escape? I
can see if you were caught up in that with them
you’d be more likely to pass out, or feel
the movement.
JOSEPH: I think we should also explore that
– I don’t want to rule out the event as
some accident, I think – I think if I were
coming to Earth and saying, don’t be afraid,
then I’d pick kids, right? Because the kids,
they’re chasing it, they’re trying to
get a better look, they’re – I think
they’re the perfect candidates for this sort
of thing.
COSMO: And no one would believe them.
JOSEPH: Sure. I suppose that we’re assuming
benevolence in my example, which, I think is more
likely than any kind of Independence Day sort of,
big alien attack. I don’t think that’s
realistic. I would say that it’s more likely
a pitstop or a scout, coming and running some
tests, or being seen when they weren’t meant
to, or-
COSMO: This is the thing, there’s so many
– with extra-terrestrials we can’t
assume they’re all the same kind of
extra-terrestrials. There’s the obvious
differences like, you have greys or
shapeshifters, and shadow-people, and
there’s hundreds upon hundreds accounts of
any of those, but we can’t assume
they’re all on the same side, yes? Just like
there’s good men and evil men, there’s
going to be good greys and evil greys, or any
other kind of – do you understand what I
mean? We can’t know for sure what – and
we’ll see what happens come the 50th,
if they return, but determining a motive is very
important.
BRYAN: I just want to step in here to say –
and I don’t want to step on anyone’s
thoughts, that’s not what this group is
about and putting limits on thinking isn’t
going to get us closer to that, as you say, the
motive for what happened. I think it’s
because of exactly that, that we shouldn’t
rule out other potential – I know the both
of you are quick to say they were visitors, and,
let’s, I’m saying that’s certainly
a credible possibility. There’s a lot of
details that aren’t satisfactorily explained
by talking about cold war technology, or tests,
experiments, or – I think that’s
something that divides the witnesses, because we
can’t completely know anything.
JOSEPH: That’s what we’re trying to do.
BRYAN: Absolutely. I think a lot of them exist in
the same space I do, which, I don’t mean
that I’ve experienced what they have at all,
but a lot of them don’t feel like they have
a good answer.
COSMO: Then it’s important we find out the
answer.
BRYAN: I hope so. I mean, I hope that it is
something on Earth. I hope it is something we can
find, you know, a log telling us “Disk-craft
experiment 203 has been sighted, we’re
sending out the military to keep a lid on
it”. Because if the answer is right here at
home, it’s closer than if it’s out
there in space.
COSMO: If we can trust that sort of – I see
where you’re coming from, but, given the
role your government, and, my government as well,
plays in this account as well as many others,
where they have faked evidence and that’s, a
known fact, that’s proven, it’d be easy
for someone to come out and say “here’s
your perfect evidence, it was the military, end
of story” because, there’s no way you
can know for sure that that’s real, you
know?
BRYAN: I think we should take anything with a
grain of salt. Like I’ve said, it’s
what they have in common that – the
strongest evidence, anecdotally, has come from
putting the witnesses in the same room and seeing
how much this is a shared experience. So yes, any
kind of physical evidence should be scrutinized,
as should any theory.
JOSEPH: But it’s – we can rule out the
obvious ones, of course. Weather balloons and
LSD-
BRYAN: I think that would be very unlikely, yes.
There’s no meaningful evidence right now
that’d make me say that.
JOSEHPH: Cosmo, you mentioned the 50th
anniversary coming up-
COSMO: Yes.
JOSEPH: It’s five years away. You think
they’ll come back?
COSMO: I’m almost certain of it. I think
– history has a way of circling around, you
know? I think there’s a ritualistic quality
to a lot of the accounts, and accounts throughout
history, especially when we can’t assume
they operate in the same space and time as us, or
travel linearly, through time or space.
BRYAN: If that’s the case then I don’t
think – I think it’s an important day,
especially for the witnesses, and that’s
true of any anniversary. And it provides a really
good platform for them to meet up and exchange
stories, and the more of an event it is, you
know, you get witnesses coming along and speaking
out after hearing their old classmates speak, or
relatives of those who have passed on, sharing
their parents’ and grandparents’
stories. I think we should be careful ascribing
meaning to linear dates, in terms of
understanding the actual event, outside of
looking at historical context for answers.
COSMO: It’s – I’ll just say this:
we’ll see come April 5th, 2015.
Because I don’t think what they started is
finished and, there’s countless examples of
them coming back to the scene of the crime, so to
speak. Roswell isn’t the only case out of
New Mexico, you know. And I mean, I know,
because, obviously what happened to me there.
JOSEPH: So, Bryan, do you think they’ll
return?
BRYAN: It depends who ‘they’ is. I
simply don’t know. I won’t rule it out.
I hope that we find answers and, I hope something
changes, something big, that gives us those
answers. I hope the right witness comes forward,
I hope we find the missing puzzle piece that
connects it altogether. I don’t want to wait
until the 50th for that, I want to
know as soon as possible, before more witnesses
pass away and their stories with them. If not for
answers, then, for them to discover the answers
along with us.
JOSEPH: Well I agree with that I – I want to
be clear that I agree with both of you in
different respects, and I try and keep my feet on
the ground when talking about this stuff, so,
yes, I want an answer, no matter what it is. I
want a clear answer that makes sense, that
explains everything, that brings closure to the
witnesses, and the UFO community, regarding this
case. That’s – I’ve done this a
long time, and I know Cosmo, so have you, which,
we’ve all been running this website, or,
investigation, for a while now and I know
you’ve looked into other cases too, Bryan
– we all know that the perfect answer
isn’t something that comes easy. And I
don’t, in my heart of hearts, think
it’s something we’ll find soon. I like
to think, I wouldn’t be doing this if I
didn’t think it was possible. It just
won’t be easy.
With that said, I’m more optimistic about a
return than you are, Bryan, and Cosmo, you and I
are pretty set in our, even if we disagree about
the minutia sometimes, we’re both set on
this being an extra-terrestrial visit. Be that
one made in kindness or something more malicious
– I hope for the former, of course – we
agree on that.
COSMO: Yes, one hundred percent.
JOSEPH: So I think- I know I won’t get this
out of you Bryan, so I’ll ask Cosmo. What
did happen? We don’t know the motive but,
you know this world, or I suppose their world,
better than any of us. What do you think?
COSMO: Look, I hope they’re peaceful, you
and I both do. But we can’t just lie down,
hands and knees, and assume that they are. I
think they’re going to return and give us a
lot of answers but, we should be prepared for
what those answers mean. Because it’s going
to change, not just how we think about this case
or any other, but everything. Everything will be
different. This is the dark ages in comparison.
JOSEPH: Well, before we wrap up, I quickly wanted
to mention, because we’ve forgotten to talk
about it, about her, but – and we’ll be
recording other videos through the week and
explore things in more depth – but the girl
who disappeared, Autumn Mackenzie. We have a
space on our site dedicated to what we know-
COSMO: Which isn’t much.
JOSEPH: No, no, so I wanted to just get a sense
of what we think about that.
BRYAN: Well, I think, and I’ve talked to you
both about this, but my big focus this year has
been trying to find as many records on her as
possible which, there isn’t much in the way
of.
COSMO: Which seems to be the case with a lot of
records from the time, especially when it’s
situations like these where the people holding
the records are trying to keep things buried.
BRYAN: Well, I think, there’s potential
truth to that, but, it’s like the Channel 9
tape, odds are it wasn’t destroyed out of
malice, but probably because they needed to fill
a pothole and used some old tapes.
COSMO: But they never aired it.
BRYAN: Well, I’ve talked to some, I’m
talking to some workers there who seem to think
it was aired, or definitely would have, and
there’s a witness who I’m in the middle
of emailing who has something to say on that. I
don’t want to really go into the weeds on
that until I know properly, but we should at
least be able to add her account to the site as
well, and hopefully clarify the situation with
the, with Channel 9.
JOSEPH: You were saying, about Autumn-
BRYAN: Right, Autumn, she, I’ve made it a
focus of mine to try and get in touch with her or
her family or see if any of her school friends,
other witnesses, have ways of contacting them. So
far I’ve turned up nothing, but I think one
of the difficulties is, that she could be Autumn
Anything, she could have married and changed her
name, or her family could have moved to another
country. It’s hard to get much narrower than
finding every Autumn in the world and asking her
if she’s the one we’re looking for.
JOSEPH: Assuming she’s still alive.
BRYAN: Absolutely, she could have passed by now
for all we know.
COSMO: Or somewhere in between. Taken away,
maybe. Be that the government or whoever it was
who visited, it’s, it could be more
complicated than just being alive or dead. When
you’re taken, it tends to be that
you’re not really one or the other, in my
experience.
JOSEPH: Well as I’m sure Bryan would say, we
don’t know for sure. I think, I think she
either died that day or very soon after, or has
passed away in the time since. Because I think if
you’re alive and you’re out there, with
that side of the story, then you would have come
forward by now.
BRYAN: We don’t know that for sure, really.
She could come forward any day now, just like any
other witnesses. Witnesses are coming forward,
not every day, but more frequently than ever
before. As much as I’m hoping to track her
down, it could be, she sees one of the reunions
in the paper and comes to us.
COSMO: I wouldn’t hold my breathe. I
don’t – well you know my thoughts on
it. I hope we see her again, in some form.
JOSEPH: Well, that seems about as good a time as
any to wrap up, and – if there’s
anything either of you feel like you want to
touch on further, we still have Cosmo with us for
another week-
COSMO: Until Thursday-
JOSEPH: The ninth, so Thursday, six days away.
Thank you to both of you for joining me in this
discussion and I look forward to talking again
tomorrow.
BRYAN: Thanks Joseph.
COSMO: Yes, thank you.
END TRANSCRIPT.
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